Flyer22 ( talk) 04:03, 17 January 2010 (UTC) And as for "the force," that is completely different that is a made-up expression used throughout that series. Flyer22 ( talk) 04:00, 17 January 2010 (UTC) Also, there was one editor who felt that the Na'vi do not believe in souls in the physical spirit sense, despite the Na'vi having a Tree of Souls. If this discussion is really being had again, then further or past suggestions for solving this problem should be given. The previous discussions about it clearly show that people have a problem with using the word "soul." Simply putting "soul" back in twice, either plainly or in quotation marks, will not solve that problem. If they do not know already what "soul" is/can mean, the Soul article makes it clear that "soul" can also mean "consciousness." In any case, I have pointed out the issue with "soul" being used plainly or both times. With the word "soul" in quotation marks for the first mention, I am not seeing how it can lead people into believing that Grace's transfer is different than Jake's. DrNegative ( talk) 03:57, 17 January 2010 (UTC) I agreed Cinosaur as well on the word "soul" being the better word to use, but not on it seeming inconsistent with what is happening.
![word mojo mypoints word mojo mypoints](https://i.imgur.com/H8W66si.png)
It is however, a work of fiction, and our personal beliefs go right out the window when it comes to these topics. DrNegative ( talk) 03:44, 17 January 2010 (UTC) On another note, the force could be challenged because users don't believe in it. This could mislead the reader into believing that Grace's transfer was different from Jake's, which I do not believe is the case here. The way it stands now, it seems as if one were different from the other and as presented in the film, this clearly isnt the case. If we are going to use one term, we should use it in both instances. Flyer22 ( talk) 03:43, 17 January 2010 (UTC) I have to agree with Cinosaur on this one. DrNegative ( talk) 03:27, 17 January 2010 (UTC) I prefer the word "soul" in this case as well, as I just stated right above in this section, but my explanation for the revert is also included. Flyer22 ( talk) 03:36, 17 January 2010 (UTC) I agree with this change because this is how the Na'vi viewed it. I feel that putting it in quotation marks that once is not as offensive, though, because it is making it clear that it is from the Na'vi point of view and that "soul" is a debatable topic. But putting it into quotation marks both times seems offensive, as if we are saying "soul" in the physical spirit sense does not exist.
![word mojo mypoints word mojo mypoints](https://us.gamesrocket.com/media/catalog/product/2/2/22964_sc3.jpg)
Thus, I suggested "soul" be put into quotation marks. But when we put "soul," some people get all bent out of shape about it.simply because they are not religious or spiritual in that sense. I prefer the word "soul" because that is what the Na'vi believe, it seems. To implement some sort of compromise, it was decided that the first mention of "soul," at Tree of Souls, would stay "soul" and in quotation marks so that people could see that this is from the Na'vi point of view, but that the second and final mention of "soul" is relayed as "consciousness" because it is more so being relayed by us. This is why some people kept and will keep changing "soul" to " consciousness," if "soul" is left plain.especially if left plain twice. Did you read all of the discussion about using the word "soul" at Talk:Avatar (2009 film)/Archive 9#Editing the "plot" section? Not everyone believes in the concept of " soul" when it comes to the physical spirit sense, of course. I was going to do that earlier when I saw that an editor had removed the quotation marks, but I was like "whatever" after a bit. But the main reason the word "soul" is used for the first part is so that it is clear that it is from the Na'vi point of view, which is why it should go back in quotation marks. Besides, "soul" is 3.25 times shorter than "consciousness". :) Regards, Cinosaur ( talk) 01:01, 17 January 2010 (UTC) I get why you changed it I did read your edit summary. Now this looks inconsistent, as if the Na'vi did something else to Jake than what they had attempted to do to Grace. FLyer22 - the reason why I changed "consciousness" to "soul" was to be consistent with the first description of this ritual done on Grace.